Making a TV Show as a Family with EcoLeaders
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Join Haeny and Nathan in talking to the makers of EcoLeaders, a TV series that’s part of BronxNet Television and available on Youtube that uses puppetry to explore collective responses to environmental issues. Jesus, Paola, and Logan are the family team behind the show, and ask questions like: How can children’s media also be activism? Through their stories of real-world issues impacting kids’ lived environments, the team behind EcoLeaders helps Haeny and Nathan think about the role of children’s media in activism and education. And you’ll hear Jesus, Paola and Logan dream up new characters, drawing on some of their favorite media like Doctor Who.
Our music is selections from Leafeaters by Podington Bear, Licensed under CC (BY-NC) 3.0.
Pop and Play is produced by the Digital Futures Institute at Teachers College, Columbia University.
The views expressed in this episode are solely those of the speaker to whom they are attributed. They do not necessarily reflect the views of the faculty, administration, staff or Trustees either of Teachers College or of Columbia University.
Episode Transcript
Haeny Yoon:
Welcome to Pop and Play, the podcast all about play. Play in all of its frivolous, joyful, serious, and powerful forms. We are back for another season.
Nathan Holbert:
We're back.
Haeny Yoon:
Woo. Of Pop and Play. And this season-
Nathan Holbert:
Can't keep us down.
Haeny Yoon:
Oh, no. Never. Started from the bottom, now we're here. And this season, we're looking at young people's media and pop culture. What are kids interested in these days and why is media an important part of engaging with youth culture? My name is Haeny Yoon.
Nathan Holbert:
And I'm Nathan Holbert. And we are two education researchers that really think a lot about play and think play matters. It's a deep conversation to dive into. Each week, we talk with other scholars, activists, parents, and children about the significance and value of play in their lives. And this week, we're going to be talking with a child, two parents, and three actors, writers, and producers.
Haeny Yoon:
Ooh, I wonder who the actors are. Could it be three out of three?
Nathan Holbert:
It could be three out of three. We're very excited. We're going to be talking with our guests about making media and the challenges and the opportunities that are part of that. But a unique feature of this week's conversation is that we're going to be talking with a family that creates media together and a young person who is an actor as well. So I'm wondering, Haeny, tell me about your acting experience.
Haeny Yoon:
Yeah, okay. If you've listened to this podcast for a long time, you know that I'm not an actor, that was not my dream.
Nathan Holbert:
That's nonsense.
Haeny Yoon:
I was actually more quiet and invisible. I didn't come into my stardom until as of late.
Nathan Holbert:
Mug for the cameras.
Haeny Yoon:
Or my potential as an actor.
Nathan Holbert:
Excellent pronunciation.
Haeny Yoon:
Yes. So I didn't really make a lot of media when I was a kid, and being the old people that we are, back then, media-making meant that you had to carry a camcorder on your shoulder, and I was like four feet tall then, so that was very difficult.
Nathan Holbert:
Instead of 4'3"?
Haeny Yoon:
Exactly. So carrying around this heavy thing was really hard, but my dad would make a lot of home videos, so I just remember watching a lot of videos that my dad made and thinking they were so delightful, and it was literally me and my brother splashing around at the pool.
Nathan Holbert:
Delightful. That sounds delightful.
Haeny Yoon:
But I didn't act. But my guess is that you, Nathan Holbert, is quite the attention person that would want to make these things. So do you have experience making media as a young person?
Nathan Holbert:
A little bit, but not as much as you might imagine. So first of all, we never owned a camcorder, ever.
Haeny Yoon:
Oh, yikes. Sorry. I'm privileged.
Nathan Holbert:
Yeah, yeah.
Haeny Yoon:
Yes.
Nathan Holbert:
But I do remember distinctly that we had a stereo system in the living room that you could plug microphones into and you could record to a tape yourself talking on these microphones. So my sister and I, I have an older sister, and would do "in the news". It was-
Haeny Yoon:
Wait, so you were a podcaster before podcasting?
Nathan Holbert:
We might've invented podcasting. You're welcome. Also, I'm sorry. But yeah, she and I, we'd plug in the microphones and we would do our little "in the news" segment, and it was just us talking about what we did that day, and we talked about it very seriously as if it really mattered.
Haeny Yoon:
Breaking news.
Nathan Holbert:
And then she'd pass to me to sing a song or something, so then I'd sing a song.
Haeny Yoon:
Oh my gosh, that's so great.
Nathan Holbert:
And we passed back and forth.
Haeny Yoon:
So you had your own variety show?
Nathan Holbert:
Basically. Yeah, it was long. Go ahead, sorry.
Haeny Yoon:
No, I think there's something so delightful about a homemade, something that isn't overproduced, but really raw version of some kind of media-making.
Nathan Holbert:
Yeah, there's something really warm about that. There's something that can really draw you into it as well.
Haeny Yoon:
Yeah. And you could see someone's process, but media-making is actually harder than it looks, even the ones that seem not as produced as a blockbuster film, but there is actually a lot of work that goes into it and it's a little bit more than the home videos that you and your... Or no, home audio recordings.
Nathan Holbert:
Thank you.
Haeny Yoon:
That you and your sister-
Nathan Holbert:
Podcasts.
Haeny Yoon:
Podcasts.
Nathan Holbert:
Proto podcasts.
Haeny Yoon:
The Holbert family podcast.
Nathan Holbert:
Yeah, a lot of work. And the extent of the work and the extent of the time and the extent of the talent that gets brought into the production of videos and movies and television shows, and yes, podcasts too, can be quite a lot. And so, I'm excited to talk to our guests who have not only that talent but also the experience of doing that and finding out what does it actually take to create a piece of media and put it out there in the world.
Haeny Yoon:
Yep. So let's talk to a family that really knows what they're doing.
Nathan Holbert:
Let's do it. So today, we are very excited to welcome a couple, a trio I would say, of local celebrities here in New York City. Jesus Alarcon.
Jesus Alarcon:
Hello. How are you doing?
Nathan Holbert:
I'm great. Paola Poucel.
Paola Poucel:
Hola. Hello, hello.
Nathan Holbert:
And Logan [indistinct].
Logan:
Hello. Hola. Bonjour. Konnichiwa. Hui.
Haeny Yoon:
Oh.
Nathan Holbert:
Wow.
Haeny Yoon:
Excellent.
Nathan Holbert:
What do you got?
Haeny Yoon:
Your turn now. I can't believe we turned to each other and said you have to do it now too.
Nathan Holbert:
We're very simple. We're excited to have the three of you here. You are collectively the stars, the producers, the directors of the series EcoLeaders, a new TV series that can be found on YouTube as part of the BronxNet television. You got puppets in the show, you got kids, you got robots, you got community leaders, you got all of it. And it's all focused on environmental issues in the Bronx, right?
Paola Poucel:
That is correct. Everything that you said is true.
Logan:
Yes.
Nathan Holbert:
It sounds to me like a children's Terminator. Is that right?
Jesus Alarcon:
Kind of.
Nathan Holbert:
Robots from the future, environmental issues?
Logan:
No.
Paola Poucel:
No, no. [inaudible 00:06:01]
Nathan Holbert:
Correct me. Tell us about the [inaudible 00:06:02]-
Jesus Alarcon:
No, no, you're pretty much on the money. The thing is that the idea comes from these kids that come from the future, from the alternate universe of 2088, wherein Earth has gone to waste because of not taking care properly of the environmental issues that we have. So they've been sent to the past, to our present day, to figure out what's the stuff that happened, what went wrong. And in that way, we're showing to our audience what could be done to prevent this future from happening. And eventually, the EcoLeaders could go back to a better time once they achieve their mission.
Paola Poucel:
That's it.
Nathan Holbert:
That was-
Jesus Alarcon:
And find Sarah Connor, of course.
Nathan Holbert:
And find Sarah Connor and kill someone in the past.
Jesus Alarcon:
Yeah, [inaudible 00:06:54].
Nathan Holbert:
That's season two. We'll get to that.
Paola Poucel:
Yes, exactly. We'll figure it out.
Nathan Holbert:
Well, we are excited to have you here to talk to you about how you made the show, how you think about children's media. Before we though dive into the serious things, we've already got into a little serious stuff when we talked about Terminator and all, but before we really get into it, we always like to play a little game to loosen ourselves up. And we have a simple game for you guys today. I'm going to give you a scenario or a situation or maybe a personality type. And you are each going to collectively, I guess each of you will individually say, but you're going to collectively answer who in your family that's appropriate for. Right?
Paola Poucel:
Okay.
Jesus Alarcon:
Okay.
Nathan Holbert:
So let me give you a simple one to start with. So in your family, who is the most likely to eat an entire bag of chips in one setting?
Paola Poucel:
I would say-
Logan:
[inaudible 00:07:43].
Paola Poucel:
No. In this family? Logan.
Jesus Alarcon:
I'd say Logan too.
Nathan Holbert:
People pointing at each other.
Paola Poucel:
Yeah, I'm going to say Logan. Yes, Logan. No, not me.
Haeny Yoon:
Can I make a suggestion to spice it up?
Nathan Holbert:
Sure. Let's add some spice.
Haeny Yoon:
So I think you should say your scenario, give them a couple of seconds to think, and on the count of three, you all have to say one person's name.
Jesus Alarcon:
Oh, okay.
Paola Poucel:
Okay. Okay. Okay.
Nathan Holbert:
Oh, my. Are you going to be the countdown clock?
Haeny Yoon:
Yes. I will do this.
Nathan Holbert:
Okay.
Jesus Alarcon:
Okay.
Nathan Holbert:
Add a little spice.
Haeny Yoon:
Yes.
Nathan Holbert:
Okay. So that was a warmup. Let's start getting into it here.
Jesus Alarcon:
All right.
Nathan Holbert:
Okay. So who in your family then is the most likely to do something dangerous just because they know they should not be doing the dangerous thing?
Paola Poucel:
Jesus.
Jesus Alarcon:
Me.
Nathan Holbert:
Perfect.
Haeny Yoon:
Is it because you've been known to do the dangerous thing?
Jesus Alarcon:
I'm an explorer, so yeah.
Haeny Yoon:
Nice.
Paola Poucel:
He's more daring.
Jesus Alarcon:
Pushing the boundaries.
Paola Poucel:
Yeah. Very good.
Jesus Alarcon:
But why? Why I shouldn't go there? Oh, that's why.
Nathan Holbert:
That's why. That's why. Okay. Who in your family is the Psyduck?
Paola Poucel:
The Psyduck? [inaudible 00:08:47].
Logan:
I know. The stressful one that gets stressed out?
Nathan Holbert:
Yeah. The stressful Pokemon that explodes from anxiety.
Haeny Yoon:
Okay. I'm so glad you explained that. She was looking, I was like, "What is-"
Nathan Holbert:
I almost locked eyes with him [inaudible 00:09:00].
Haeny Yoon:
What is a Psyduck was my first. I would not be able to answer this. So it's the person that's most likely to get stressed out.
Paola Poucel:
Yes.
Jesus Alarcon:
Yes.
Haeny Yoon:
Okay. 1, 2, 3.
Jesus Alarcon:
Paola.
Paola Poucel:
Me.
Logan:
Her.
Nathan Holbert:
I love it when there's consensus.
Haeny Yoon:
I know, I love the consensus too. It was either they had more time to think about it or it was just very obvious.
Jesus Alarcon:
We had to debate for a second.
Nathan Holbert:
Okay. Who in the family is always wanting to light stuff on fire?
Paola Poucel:
Okay.
Haeny Yoon:
1, 2, 3.
Paola Poucel:
Jesus.
Jesus Alarcon:
Me.
Logan:
Me.
Paola Poucel:
Oh my goodness. I'm in danger.
Haeny Yoon:
Paola is in a very precarious situation because the other two want to light things on fire.
Paola Poucel:
That doesn't help my stress at all.
Logan:
In Minecraft.
Nathan Holbert:
That's the best. All right, last one. Who in your family is plotting revenge right now?
Jesus Alarcon:
Mom.
Nathan Holbert:
Mom and Logan.
Haeny Yoon:
Oh, Mom and Logan. Okay.
Paola Poucel:
Logan, you're everything. I'm a little concerned. What's going on here?
Logan:
I'm plotting revenge, but I will never do it.
Nathan Holbert:
Okay. Just doing it in your mind and Minecraft.
Paola Poucel:
Exactly.
Haeny Yoon:
Actually, I like to plot revenge in my mind a lot too.
Nathan Holbert:
Honestly, that's way better than getting revenge in the real world, right? Just work through it...
Paola Poucel:
Exactly.
Nathan Holbert:
... then move on.
Haeny Yoon:
That's how you work is to plot revenge. But I wonder how it would feel if you actually went through with it.
Nathan Holbert:
Stay tuned for our season six true crime podcast.
Jesus Alarcon:
Right?
Nathan Holbert:
Well, thank you for playing that short game with us. It helps us get to know you a little bit, get a sense of what you know about each other, who's actually an actual danger to us in the studio here. Okay, this is good.
Paola Poucel:
I hope you have an extinguisher close by.
Nathan Holbert:
So one of the things we really were excited to talk to you about as we got a chance to watch EcoLeaders and thoroughly enjoyed each of those episodes, and when Haeny and I were talking about this, we were like, "Oh, we got to get them on the podcast to talk about the media, how they make the media." Haeny's like, "We got to see Citizen Jeff, I'm a huge fan." But we wanted to hear how you make this kind of media. Tell us a little bit about how it came about and how you think about it.
Paola Poucel:
So this fundraiser, they just came together. They created this organization called Creatives Reveal New York. So they were going to give a grant to 200 artists of the whole state of New York, and they were going to get this salary for two years to do whatever they want through an organization. So we were lucky enough to get that grant through BronxNet, and well, it wasn't me, I have to be honest, Jesus came up with this idea because we thought that we wanted to do something about the environment because I think this is a subject that has been really relegated. Nobody is talking about it enough.
Paola Poucel:
Honestly, especially kids, or it's lame usually, we come to the environment, we wanted to do something cool that reminded us of our shows when we were kids, the eighties, nineties shows, that stuff. And so, he was just like, we were talking and he was like, "Okay, what about these three characters? And one of them is called JB Eight and another one, Cardi G." I always look confused and that's my character, Cardi G and another one, LeTron. Everything just was coming out of his head at that moment and we're like, okay, yes, let's write that immediately.
Haeny Yoon:
So I got the part where you said you were part of an artist collective when people after the pandemic left New York, a lot of artists left New York, and you're talking about the ways that people are trying to bring art back into the city. So what were you all doing before the pandemic as artists?
Paola Poucel:
Basically, I've been working with a bilingual children's theater, a company called Teatro Osea for the past 15 years now, or 18 years, I think. I've been doing puppetry and children's theater since then. Voice shows, voiceover, animation, all that. But then everything came to a halt, especially theater. We were actually in a really bad place and we thought that we were going to have to go back to Mexico. That was it. But this opportunity came up and we weren't the only ones, and I know that a lot of artists, we got to stay and to keep going with their careers just because of that opportunity.
Jesus Alarcon:
Just before the pandemic, I was in the middle of pitching two shows, two children's shows. One was a horror show and the other one was kind of an epic thing, Game of Thrones meets the Smurfs type of stuff. And I was in the middle of pitching to Netflix and to Disney company, and it's exactly the same. It all came to a halt. And you were stranded with nothing for a second. So yeah.
Haeny Yoon:
Wait, wait, wait. A children's show that's Game of Thrones time Smurfs.
Jesus Alarcon:
Yes. Meet the Smurfs.
Haeny Yoon:
Oh my God.
Jesus Alarcon:
Game of Smurfs.
Haeny Yoon:
I love that. That has got to be made instantly.
Jesus Alarcon:
Right? With that [inaudible 00:14:36] I got it made.
Nathan Holbert:
Nailed it. You nailed it.
Haeny Yoon:
Oh my gosh. I am so interested in that. What about you, Logan? Are you involved in theater?
Logan:
Yes, but honestly, my biggest gigs came pandemic and after. A movie during pandemic and multiple series like 2022 and after.
Haeny Yoon:
Oh, wow. And what kinds of roles did you play there? Were you doing voiceover stuff, acting stuff?
Logan:
Before 2022 or mid-2021, I mostly did acting on camera, but now I just mostly do voice acting.
Paola Poucel:
Wait, what kind of acting did you do on camera? Tell them the kind of roles.
Logan:
Well, I actually started as just a background character, then one small character, and then a character for a movie, and then voice acting.
Haeny Yoon:
Oh, nice. I do have to say you have an excellent voice for voice acting.
Logan:
Thank you. That comes from TV. Every single voice comes from imitating, which helps you create your own voices.
Haeny Yoon:
Oh, I love that. I love that.
Logan:
Without TV, I wouldn't have been able to make my voices. So, don't put limits on TV, people.
Paola Poucel:
Well, and it also helps that your mom is a voiceover actor as well.
Nathan Holbert:
Yeah.
Paola Poucel:
[inaudible 00:15:58].
Logan:
[inaudible 00:16:00] the agent and stuff.
Haeny Yoon:
Paula, this is about Logan, okay? I'm just kidding.
Logan:
And it's true. It's very true.
Haeny Yoon:
Logan, I think you said a very... I'm going to nerd out here for a second, but you said a really important thing that's part of media studies and also writing, childhood writing, is that everybody's... What you do when you develop your own writing voice, you develop it by reading a lot of other people's writing, adopting and taking up people's writing, and then you transform into making your own. And sort of like how children engage with media is you watch a lot of media, you kind of take it up and imitate it, and eventually it doesn't become an imitation. It's actually your own unique voice. So I think you said that very well.
Logan:
Thank you.
Nathan Holbert:
I'm curious about the puppets. Paula, you mentioned you've been doing children's theater, you've been working with puppetry for a while, and Jesus, you're apparently making a Game of Smurfs, thinking about puppets as well. I'm curious, the three of you, why puppets? How do you think about that as a way of communicating with kids or telling stories? What is it about the puppets that you like?
Paola Poucel:
Well, first of all, you can make them whatever you want them. They can look whatever you want to be. They can be yellow, orange, blue, whatever. And you can also play a lot with them. They can make crazy stuff. And children love puppets, thanks to Sesame Street. And there's a suspension of disbelief every time they see a puppet, even if they're looking at the other person talking next to the puppet, they just look at, and if they're good puppeteers, they can totally think that there's a puppet, the one who's talking. And like we were saying, we also wanted this eighties feeling, and there was a lot of puppets in the eighties and nineties. Not only Sesame Street, but Jim Henson did a lot of little shows with puppets and even the Blue House, or what was it called? You know this blue bear? Remember that mega blue bear?
Nathan Holbert:
Oh, no.
Paola Poucel:
Well, that was one of the shows.
Jesus Alarcon:
Also, the puppets are a little more universal in terms of identification with the kids. The way that if you have a green puppet, it can be any race, any age. I mean, just by whatever the puppeteer decides to do with him, he will have a certain type of personality, but he's a blank slate for the audience. You can identify with him just because he has the same feelings and reactions to whatever the problems he's facing. It's easier to access as an audience to something that it's a blank slate in terms of appearance.
Jesus Alarcon:
And that's why I think we love working with puppets. This is my first time working in television with puppets. It's been a learning curve because it was not as easy as we thought it would be, but we have a great team around us that had helped us learn about it, learn how to make it more efficient, and how to make it more engaging to all the other people who were coming into the set and interacting with them for the first time, especially our star here, that Q had to work just with three puppets around him and he would being the only human on camera.
Haeny Yoon:
When I watched episode six, was that your actual classroom, Logan?
Logan:
Oh, no.
Haeny Yoon:
Oh, was a different classroom?
Logan:
It was a random... Yeah, I was in fourth grade.
Paola Poucel:
Yeah?
Logan:
That was like a second-grade class, right?
Paola Poucel:
It was a second-grade class. Yeah, it was one of the community elementary schools from the Bronx.
Haeny Yoon:
Oh, cool.
Paola Poucel:
Yeah, I mean, BronxNet has a really good connection with them. They allowed us. That group was the first one to actually watch EcoLeaders, so they were there for the premiere and they loved it. They're actually like, they were so nervous. Kids are tough. If they hate something, they will let you know. But no, they loved it and they were really happy to be part of the whole thing.
Haeny Yoon:
Yeah. For our listeners, you definitely have to watch that episode, but there is a segment where the puppets and the actors go to a classroom. Citizen Jeff also goes to the classroom, and they talk about different things that they were going to do to clean up their neighborhoods and the environment and things like that. And what I noticed about it that was so nice was that there's something about puppets being in the space with kids that makes them joyful and open up a little bit and interact in a different way that another human adult, maybe standing right next to them, might not be able to get.
Paola Poucel:
Definitely. And what I was saying before about this thing of the kids looking at the puppet and not looking at the adult because they were totally looking at me. I was in front of them with the puppet talking to them, and they weren't looking to the puppet. They were looking to Cardi the whole time. Even if I was changing my voice to do this voice and then to go to Cardi, they were super happy anyway. They were just looking at her the entire time.
Haeny Yoon:
Yeah. Oh, that's really cool. I feel like we should actually maybe, sorry, I'm going to backtrack again. Now we're just completely chaotic. We should talk about the roles that each of them play in the show, right?
Nathan Holbert:
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So you just mentioned Cardi G.
Paola Poucel:
Yeah. I'm Cardi G.
Nathan Holbert:
Tell us about Cardi G.
Paola Poucel:
Well, Cardi G is this super enthusiastic girl from 2088. Everything is fantastic because everything will be good. She's very positive, so when things go wrong, it's very hard for her to come out of that dark place. So she [inaudible 00:22:05] because she's extremely happy. So I'm playing Cardi G and I'm also playing Clara, that is another small character, and she's part of Bronx and she's one of the producers that at the beginning she's very annoyed by them, but then she is happy and she wants to help them.
Nathan Holbert:
High Commander.
Haeny Yoon:
High Commander.
Paola Poucel:
I'm High Commander Clara. Yes.
Haeny Yoon:
She became very happy when she was named High Commander by the puppets.
Paola Poucel:
And I'm also LeTron James.
Haeny Yoon:
Oh, you are?
Paola Poucel:
Yeah. LeTron James.
Haeny Yoon:
And tell us about LeTron James, tell us who LeTron James is.
Paola Poucel:
LeTron James is basically the robot, is the robot companion, and he helps them to... He's a he, right?
Jesus Alarcon:
He's an 18-generation AI. Yes.
Paola Poucel:
He's an 18-generation AI. Sorry. He is made of recyclable items, and he helps them to gather all the information and do the transmission to the future to Professor Fossil. [inaudible 00:23:04], Logan?
Logan:
Can I also say a side comment?
Paola Poucel:
Yes.
Nathan Holbert:
Yeah.
Logan:
About LeTron.
Nathan Holbert:
Yeah, tell us.
Logan:
He also falls the power every five seconds and is very hard to fix.
Nathan Holbert:
I mean, 18th generation. He's been around a while. Tell us about Citizen Jeff.
Logan:
Well, he's just a regular kid who has friends from the future. People don't believe him, but it's actually true, and stuff like that. Also, he is now the official owner of the TTT.
Haeny Yoon:
What's the TTT?
Logan:
The Thought Travel Transporter, which means he can teleport to any place you've seen or been. I actually have a version of the TTT, like the light.
Nathan Holbert:
You have it at home? Yeah.
Logan:
Yeah.
Nathan Holbert:
I could use one of those.
Haeny Yoon:
Very cool.
Nathan Holbert:
I'd like to transport wherever I can think. That's a handy tool to have.
Paola Poucel:
And Jeff meets them because his brother works at BronxNet, so he's around all the time.
Logan:
We never see the brother though.
Paola Poucel:
And we never see the brother.
Logan:
He is the camera.
Paola Poucel:
Because he is a cameraman.
Nathan Holbert:
I don't think we see the mother either. Right?
Paola Poucel:
No.
Nathan Holbert:
We hear the mother a lot, but never see the mother.
Paola Poucel:
No.
Logan:
That's how they make the ghost jokes.
Jesus Alarcon:
That's budget problems.
Nathan Holbert:
Yeah. So speaking of budget problems, Jesus, tell us about your role.
Jesus Alarcon:
I'm the writer-director of most of the episodes. So yeah, this is my brainchild, I guess.
Nathan Holbert:
You also act in at least one episode, I know.
Haeny Yoon:
Two.
Jesus Alarcon:
I told you, budget problems. We need some random guy. Random guy.
Haeny Yoon:
So Jesus is the writer and random guy. That's a credit that he gets rolling. Random guy.
Nathan Holbert:
I like that. That's good.
Haeny Yoon:
Yeah, very nice.
Jesus Alarcon:
Alfred Hitchcock was a very good random guy.
Haeny Yoon:
Exactly. Yeah. That's true. And we should mention that Logan or Citizen Jeff is actually the connector between the future puppets and the present day.
Paola Poucel:
Definitely.
Haeny Yoon:
Very important. Very important role.
Nathan Holbert:
Saving humanity. Speaking of that, I wonder if you guys could talk a little bit about the way in which this media-making becomes sort of storytelling, but also sort of activism. Both, right? You mentioned this at the top, that this isn't really a show that's just like purely informational. Let us tell you about the different seasons, or let us tell you about this particular animal. It's also very much about activism and doing things differently. And we were watching an episode recently together about Asthma Alley. Can you say a little bit about how you approach this interesting intersection, especially when you're talking about making a show for children?
Jesus Alarcon:
Yeah. Well, the thing is that the shows that we grow up, they really focus on this, the conscious for ecology, but at an individual level, like pick up your trash and don't waste water and whatever. And we have seen with to pass a time that is not really about the individual effort, it's about the community effort. Ecological problems are something the effects a larger group of humans than just one. So that's what we wanted to address with the EcoLeaders. It was about making conscience or making kids and young people conscious about how they need to do a community effort. And giving the tools that BronxNet gives us to engage with community efforts, with politicians, with different institutions like the...
Paola Poucel:
EPA.
Jesus Alarcon:
EPA. We thought that was the best way to go. That was the best answer.
Paola Poucel:
And also, while we were doing research for the show, we didn't know actually what was going on in the Bronx. And the Asthma Alley is a huge problem, and it's affecting children. Asthma Alley is this section of the Bronx, basically, where highways converge.
Jesus Alarcon:
Converge in the same part.
Paola Poucel:
And also, there's a bunch of... Not industries, but parking lots. You know USPS-
Jesus Alarcon:
And the delivery hubs, there's four or five companies that have their delivery hubs right there in the middle of the Bronx. So the levels of contamination are through the roof. And the thing is that there's a lot of people who live actually there in the middle of this intersection, which makes the kids who live in those living complexes even, or they're more at risk, is the part in the whole nation that has the highest level of asthma.
Paola Poucel:
The highest ratio of asthma for kids. And that makes them to miss school a lot. Of course, to be sick, all the emergency rooms are always at full capacity because of this problem. So it's amazing that no one is doing anything. So we wanted to, I mean, I think that, honestly, that started with the Black Lives Matter movement. And Logan was like, how old were you? Six, five or six. And we didn't want to hide all what was going on in the world. So we had all these conversations with him, and I saw that there was a chance for kids to get involved, even if they're young, we feel that we don't have to put our kids in a bubble, that they should know what's going on around them. And they as kids, they can do something about it. They can write letters, they can also go to the protest with their parents. We can do to a peaceful protest or something like that. But they can involve, since they're very young, to actually make changes in their community because you concern your own community to make a change in larger capacity.
Nathan Holbert:
I really love that. Bringing up the Black Lives Matter protests that were here happening all over the nation, but were happening a lot here in our neighborhoods. And I also remember that feeling of there's part of you that has this temptation, like, oh, there's these adult things that are happening and we got to kind of, adult stuff goes over here and stuff for kids goes over there. But that's obviously kind of absurd. And the only way for us to raise children or build communities or support young people in being adults that can think about these issues and can challenge these issues and can make impacts on these things, is to be aware of them and to have conversations about them. So I love that you bring that up. I think that's such a challenging thing as a parent to recognize is that it's important to talk about these tough real-world issues that are happening around us and not to try to hide those off.
Paola Poucel:
And going back to Sesame Street and Mr. Rogers, they talk about those issues. I think it's in the 2000s, after 9/11, I would say, that parents started trying to hide those issues to their kids because they wanted a more happier childhood. And honestly, I mean, it's in my opinion as a parent, at least for my kid, I want him to know what's going on around him to start build his consciousness.
Haeny Yoon:
Yeah. It's like asking kids to be engaged citizens because you know they can be, right?
Paola Poucel:
Thank you. Beautiful.
Haeny Yoon:
Versus like, oh, you're supposed to be sitting there just doing nothing because you don't really understand. And so, I think that's the nice thing about even the show is that Citizen Jeff is an engaged citizen and he's called Citizen Jeff, which I think is such a nice way to phrase and already give agency to a child, to a kid in that community space. I'm also thinking about... What am I thinking about? Oh, yeah.
Haeny Yoon:
Okay, so I'm thinking about the balance between engaging children's sense of civic agency and then also engaging and having respect for the things that kids really like and love, which is fun, which is a story, which I feel like sometimes we try to separate those two things. This show is supposed to be a fun show where maybe it's going to be like... Remember Pee-wee's Playhouse? It's just going to be chaos and everything because we know that kids like that, but then this is going to be an informative National Geographic-like show where we're going to teach kids something. And I feel like your show is intentionally trying to blur those boundaries and do two of those things together. So can you talk about how you decided on these storylines and how you brought that together? Jesus, everybody's pointing at you.
Paola Poucel:
Yeah, because [inaudible 00:31:54].
Jesus Alarcon:
Well, the idea is that, the best narrative, the best dramas that you can do, it's as long as the stakes are high, and kids respond very well to that. And if you put that something is really important and stakes are high, and this is how you can learn and this is how you can help, they will get engaged right away. If you're just giving information for the sake of giving information, it's really boring. And the point because it's like, okay...
Nathan Holbert:
Let me write this down, hang on.
Jesus Alarcon:
He's like, that's great, but that's how... I don't know how that's going to affect me or how it's going to affect my life. And because it's so high stakes for them, the whole future depends on them, on their solving these problems and finding what happened. Then the kids are engaged in that idea. So every episode, even if it's small in how does energy work, they know that the stakes are high for these puppets, and because they identify with puppets and the stakes are high, then they're willing to learn what are the causes and what are the solutions that they can get. But I think that's where we try to engage with that. It's like, okay, let's try to make this really important for the EcoLeaders so our audience will know that this is really important.
Haeny Yoon:
Yeah. And also, you have Agent Jared, who's always standing in the way and acting as the villain. So I think that adds an element of surprise-
Nathan Holbert:
The Jared.
Haeny Yoon:
... obstacle. Yeah. Logan, do your classmates watch your show?
Logan:
Some, yes.
Haeny Yoon:
Yes. And what is their feedback?
Logan:
I haven't heard. I'll ask.
Paola Poucel:
No, the feedback that we've got from kids that, for example, your cousins, they really like the show. Even your kids, Maisie and Emerson, and I mean, your cousins are like five and three, and they really liked it. They were actually starstruck seeing Logan like, wow, it's Citizen Jeff.
Nathan Holbert:
I mean, I'm starstruck.
Haeny Yoon:
In general. Yeah. So maybe parallel question, Logan. So think about the shows that you like right now. What is appealing to it? We want to ask you because you're someone that stars in a show that is creating an opportunity for kids to engage with a very serious topic, but then also engaging with humor and comedy and villains and all of that, which I think is really hard to do. So what's appealing to you in how other people might do that? You could even talk about a show you like.
Logan:
A lot of things are appealing to me. Action, adventure, mystery, drama, sci-fi. Mostly anything that contains suspense.
Haeny Yoon:
Yes.
Logan:
Or mostly, honestly, it might sound a bit basic, but it actually is true. Things exploding.
Nathan Holbert:
Back to the fire.
Logan:
In every good show, there's at least one thing that explodes or falls apart. No, I'm actually serious.
Nathan Holbert:
I can't disagree with that. I can't disagree with that.
Haeny Yoon:
I actually love a good show that something falls apart, and then it's all about getting it back together.
Nathan Holbert:
Could be a person.
Logan:
But really, to make it, you just have to think how a kid would think and put your head into it. Well, put more of your heart into it, actually. Your head is for the commas and the literature and the... Whatchamacallit?
Paola Poucel:
The grammar?
Logan:
Yeah, the grammar and stuff. But the idea comes from your heart. Well, and brain. Your heart though, of the things you like implementing with what kids like.
Haeny Yoon:
Yeah, and that's hard.
Jesus Alarcon:
For sure. I think that's pretty much what we did.
Haeny Yoon:
Yeah.
Nathan Holbert:
I love that. It's a great vibe. The whole thing is a great vibe and it definitely reminds me of shows from my childhood and it's a lot of fun.
Jesus Alarcon:
Perfect.
Nathan Holbert:
So what's next for the three of you? Are you working on anything new together?
Paola Poucel:
Well, now we're working in the budget for the second season. So because this season was made with the grant, Gravesville, New York, but now we're gathering the budget for the next one. But we're working on that. And I'm still working with [inaudible 00:36:33]. I do a lot of audio description as well. But Silver Logan is recording three animations right now. He has recurring roles, and Jesus just finished a proof of concept, right?
Jesus Alarcon:
Yeah, I'm doing a film, anti-romantic comedy.
Haeny Yoon:
I love that.
Nathan Holbert:
So one thing we like to do before we wrap up our episodes is to find out from you all what's poppin. So we're curious about any shows you're into, movies, video games, books, music, what media is getting you excited these days? What's poppin for you?
Paola Poucel:
Right now I'm obsessed with Yellowjackets. It's so good. All the characters are so complex and all those female characters are so different than anything that is being written before, I think. It's pretty good. So that's what gets me poppin right now.
Haeny Yoon:
Excellent.
Nathan Holbert:
That's awesome. What's poppin for you, Logan?
Logan:
This is a long list. This will prepare you.
Haeny Yoon:
Okay. Prepared.
Nathan Holbert:
We're comfortable.
Logan:
[inaudible 00:37:40]. Owl House. Bluey.
Paola Poucel:
Right now?
Logan:
Oh, cricket [inaudible 00:37:42]
Jesus Alarcon:
Right now? No. Right now.
Logan:
Cricket Green, Bluey, Pokemon Horizons. Pokemon Violet. Pokemon... Pokemon... What's it called? Unite, Pokemon Quest.
Jesus Alarcon:
I think he might-
Haeny Yoon:
What are these? Are these actual cards? Are they books or cards?
Jesus Alarcon:
No. They're a TV show. I think you might be sneaking more TV time that we want.
Nathan Holbert:
Awesome.
Logan:
And also Wonder, I had just finished. Very good because... Mostly because it changes perspectives.
Nathan Holbert:
Oh, cool. That's awesome.
Logan:
That's a good book.
Nathan Holbert:
If you could recommend one thing to the young listeners of the podcast, would it be Wonder or would it be something different?
Logan:
Another thing.
Nathan Holbert:
What would that be?
Logan:
Everyone get a Nintendo Switch.
Nathan Holbert:
Sold.
Jesus Alarcon:
Well, you have a new sponsor.
Nathan Holbert:
Yeah, right. Nintendo, if you're listening. Jesus, what about for you?
Jesus Alarcon:
Damn, there's so much. We're really loving... The whole family is loving Agatha All Along. I think it's great.
Nathan Holbert:
Yeah. That's a great one.
Haeny Yoon:
So good.
Jesus Alarcon:
I love this animation for adults, I'm sorry, that's called Twilight of the Gods on Netflix is really, really good. Horror movie, The Substance. Go see it. It's really scary. And just for research purposes, for the season two of EcoLeaders, I made these guys start watching Doctor Who. They're loving it too.
Haeny Yoon:
Oh my gosh. Okay. I'm so glad you said that because EcoLeaders has a Doctor Who-esque quality to it.
Paola Poucel:
Yes.
Jesus Alarcon:
Thank you. That means so much to us.
Nathan Holbert:
That's great.
Haeny Yoon:
Now that you just said that, I was like, yes, it definitely has that quality.
Nathan Holbert:
All the screaming and running frantically.
Haeny Yoon:
The aesthetic. Just the aesthetic of it too. Yes.
Nathan Holbert:
Well, thank you all for being here, Paola, Jesus, Logan, thank you for joining us today and hanging out with us and talking to us about EcoLeaders. Hopefully, people have a chance to check it out. We'll link to it in the show notes.
Paola Poucel:
Thank you. Thank you for having us.
Jesus Alarcon:
Thank you.
Nathan Holbert:
Of course.
Paola Poucel:
It was a blast. Thank you.
Jesus Alarcon:
Bye.
Paola Poucel:
Pop and Play is produced by Haeny Yoon, Nathan Holbert, Lalitha Vasudevan, Billy Collins, and Joe Riina-Ferrie at Teachers College, Columbia University with the Digital Futures Institute.
Nathan Holbert:
Audio recording for this episode by Meier Clark and Abu Abdelbagi.
Haeny Yoon:
This episode was edited by Billy Collins and Adrienne Vitullo.
Nathan Holbert:
For a transcript and to learn more, visit tc.edu/popandplay. Our music is selections from Leafeaters by Pottington Bear used here under a Creative Commons Attribution non-commercial license. Blake Danzig and Meier Clark provided our social media and outreach support. Follow @popandplaypod on Instagram. Thank you to Abu Abdelbagi for support with our website and additional materials.
Haeny Yoon:
Do you teach about play and pop culture? Check out our topics collection organized for the classroom. And of course, don't forget to share Pop and Play with a friend or colleague.
Nathan Holbert:
And thanks for listening.
